Unnatural?
Posted by James on June 15, 2012 · 49 Comments
What exactly does it mean to say that homosexuality is unnatural? FOOTNOTES: 1. Fivepointbaptist’s video “Answers to Stupid Objections #5” www.youtube.com 2. Professor John Corvino’s lecture “What’s Morally Wrong with Homosexuality?” www.youtube.com 3. ThatGayBloke’s video “Homosexuality Is Unnatural” www.youtube.com and Depfox’s video “Bryan Unplugged, Homosexuality Unnatural” www.youtube.com 4. Igor Primoratz, “Sexual Perversion”, 34 (2) American Philosophical Quarterly 245, 247 (1997). 5. Id. at 245. 6. Richard B. Hays, “Relations Natural and Unnatural: A Response to John Boswell’s Exegesis of Romans 1”, 14 (1) The Journal of Religious Ethics 184, 194-195 (1986). For the Thomists and those interested in the Thomistic approach to this issue, Eugene F. Rogers of the University of North Carolina published an interesting article a little over 10 years ago entitled “Aquinas on Natural Law and the Virtues in Biblical Context: Homosexuality as a Test Case.” 27 (1) The Journal of Religious Ethics 29 (1999). Some very interesting data on acceptance of homosexuality in the United States. Particularly noteworthy is the significant increase in acceptance of homosexuality among Catholics and men. thesocietypages.org Music: “Solitaire” Come say “hi” on Twitter: twitter.com Come say “hi” on Think Atheist: www.thinkatheist.com
Video Rating: 4 / 5
My friend and I drove 5 hours to California so I could install three American Standard 16 SEER Two Stage straight cool split systems for someone. These were to cool rooms within a warehouse with a high heat load from lighting and high humidity load as well. The lighting isn’t always on and we need to dehumidify as well so that’s why I used 2 stage with variable speed blowers. I used the American Standard with the 2 stage Scroll compressor for RELIABILITY as it is my opinion that the design of the Trane 19i (and Am Standard equivalent) was not good with the fact it stops and stars recip compressors all day versus just cycling an “unloader” valve in the compressor. So Friday night we get to Cali and unload the supplies form the van. Go to bed at midnight. Got one hour sleep because the hotel’s A/C unit kept tripping it’s GFI (I so wanted to hack that thing off). Got up early Sat morning and drank some energy drinks. Installed the three air handlers. The 4 ton system I got the ductwork done, line sets done, press tested, evacuated and started up by Friday night. Got the two 5 ton systems line sets done and on nitrogen test. Went to the hotel. Got 4 hours sleep. Woke up Sunday AM. Drank more energy drinks. Evacuated and charged the two 5 tons systems. Got ductwork done on the two 5 ton systems. Everything working like a champ. Drove home with friend and back home in Arizona by Sunday night.
“The parts don’t fit”
Cheap Ikea knockoffs are unnatural?
2. “Natural” as coextensive with procreative.
So EVERY OTHER activity that’s NOT boinking to make babies is unnatural.
Unnatural as coextensive with immoral.
Someone get out that letter to the Rabbi, the big book of Leviticus has all sorts of weird and wonderful things that are “unnatural as coextensive? with immoral”. Poly-cotton undies? Shrimp cocktails? Unnatural!
My parts and those of my man most certainly fit. I could present a video as evidence, but this is youtube,? not xtube, he he 🙂
I never said stupid. I said it requires a conscious lack of critical thought since religious dogma is illogical and inconsistent? in the extreme. It also requires the ability to ignore any problems in the doctrine of the religion. These are demonstrable problems with religions and the reason why much of the world is, using your words, “confused”.
I don’t have “truth”. I have evidence of the real world that is demonstrable.
My IQ is much higher than average so yes, my brain IS superior to most.
Perhaps you think being a christian is stupid but to me it is far more foolish to believe one can discern truth on such matters intellectually. Look at the rest of the world and how much confusion and controversy there is between people who rely on their own understanding. Also one must be arrogant to assume their thinking capabilities extend further than the ‘confused’ masses. What makes you think? your truth is any more reliable than Stalin’s or anyone else. Is your brain biologically superior?
Sex is an a-moral issue. Like fire. Sometimes it keeps you warm and cooks your food. But it can also destroy things? and cause harm. I think you are making sex a “moral” issue and thereby coming to he conclusion that if you think sex is this than it you have to think it’s that. Sex is both good and bad. It can be good in that bonds two people, straight or gay, and it can be good that it pro-creates. To state one does not negate the other. Best regards and thanks for your response.
You stated that sex is, in part, about procreation. So if you are against homosexual sex because it doesn’t lead to procreation then in order to be consistent you would have to be against all sex that is not for the express purpose of procreation which includes the examples I cited.
By the way,? there is no hyphen between pro and creation. It’s all one word.
Not really clear on your point. Are you saying sex is not about procreation? I’m? not clear on your leap in logic from “sex being about pro-creation/or not” to where I have to be against certain sexual acts and the use of contraception. Can you clarify? Or, explain differently? Are you responding to my comment about homosexual sex not being about pro-creation? Do you think homosexual sex is pro-creative? Again, not following your logic.
Prof, I love how you present a consistent, logically argument with 3 specific points and yet people STILL try to use them to defend the “homosexuality is unnatural” claim. The capacity of some? people to ignore the logic in front of them and repeat the just debunked argument never ceases to amaze me. I tell you, if I wasn’t so interested in space I would be studying psychology right now. 😉
Sin is a worthless concept that only Christians believe in.
Being a Christian? requires the sacrifice of ones critical thinking ability and the self discipline to ignore any holes or flaws in the dogma and doctrine.
If sex is about procreation (even if only in part)? then, by necessity, you would have to be against contraception, sterile people having sex, and any type of sex that does not include a penis in a vagina (anal, oral, etc.). If this is what you believe then you would be consistent. If you excuse any of these then you are being a hypocrite with a logically flawed argument.
Thanks. We’re making significant progress.?
Nice job.
Good luck with getting? your rights lad.
You deserve them.
That’s why being a christian is a sacrifice? and requires self discipline
Homosexuality is perfectly natural what the bible says about human nature is that in becoming a christian we are told to die to our human nature to be reborn spiritually. Pretty much most things that come naturally to both gays and straights? is usually sin. 🙂
The overall feel I get from his responses to the “Unnatural” arguement is that he’s saying, if gays can have sex..that’s natural enough. I think he’s missing? something. Sex serves two purpose, one being an intimate bond that defines the partnership between the individuals involved. The second being pro-creation. I have no doubt that homosexual sex can be very “bonding” and “intimate”. But it doesn’t meet the “procreation” criteria. He over simplifies the argument in order to object to it.
in my eyes procreation IS the purpose of sex…just cause we found other ways to have fun with out sexual organs doesnt mean it’s not the purpose…and yes i would say that other stuff is “unnatural” granted i just dont say? that being “unnatural” is a bad thing lol
Walking on two legs is unnatural.
Abstract thought is? unnatural.
Representational writing is unnatural.
Artistic expression is unnatural.
Humans do a lot of “unnatural” things just because we’re human. It would actually be more unnatural for *us* if sex *didn’t* follow this pattern.
The important thing is? that you’ve recognized it and gotten beyond it. Now you can help others do that same. 🙂
Part of my deconversion process has been unbrainwashing the gay? bigotry from my mind, because it is so rampant in the church. Funny thing is, my two landlords are gay, in their 50’s and just plain fantastic people. They actually started the process years ago before I even deconverted – call it a head start, but now I really see how horribly narrow minded I really was and it is quite upsetting to me.
What he probably meant is that heterosexual sex is natural because in principle it leads to offspring. You pass your genes on. Homosexual sex isn’t so successful? in this department.
Interesting that you left prophylactics out of the list and? went straight those other examples.
Ah, so if? the people are heterosexual and something precludes their being able to reproduce, their sexual relations remain natural. However, if the people are homosexual and this precludes their being able to reproduce, their sexual relations are rendered unnatural. Got it. You could have saved yourself and me a lot of time by simply making your claim clear: heterosexual sex is natural because it’s heterosexual.
“I pick the number 2. If the relationship of two healthy people isn’t? able to produce offspring regardless of their will, it is unnatural. Hard to? get?”
So the sexual union of two sterile heterosexuals is unnatural, correct?
He did not re-interpret? it, as the original meaning referred to same-sex acts being unnatural (out of the ordinary) for the people engaging in them (Pagans at fertility rituals). The Passage refers to that, and not homosexuality per se.
What is the purpose? of the data wire? I may sound dumb but I am going to hopefully be an HVAC tech within about 4 years. Any info helps. Thanks.
~Matt
i hate to say the linesets arent pretty, n pads really should have been used.the wiring could have been cleaner? (vertical n horizontal).but for two guys doing this in one weekend you guys busted your humps. decent.
@HVACKID94 I’ve heard rumors of Carrier introducing a TRUE? modulating furnace this fall, a variable speed outdoor unit, and a brand new infinity controller.
Did you do Manual J calculations? I’d be curious to know how the sodium lamps would factor in. Also where do the lamps vent? to?
@HVACKID94
I can’t believe Nordyne has the highest SEER unit.
They are known for MOBILE HOME? a/c’s and furnaces!
Top secret stuff.
But seems to be a? lot of “sleuths” hanging around. LOL!
Yeah I think it’s more dependable than the twin recip model that cost more.
This? being 5 hours from home. I wanted dependable!
All commercial was WAY better!
Now I’m not on the road. I work “in house”? keeping stuff running for a place 15 min from home.
Thanks bro!?
I just added a video for a taste of the current stuff.
I traded my Dakota straight? across for a Durango. Less clearance but I still go 4X4 with it.
@HVACKID94
Interesting.
I think it was MAYTAG or something like that I saw about 5? years ago with inverter tech resi splits. I forget who made the units for them though.
I still remember Trane’s old true variable speed units form the 1980’s. The ones that used the liquid line to cool the electronics in the condenser.
“Vice grip expansion valve”. Wow, you remembered? that temp repair! HA HA!
I forgot all about that.
Of course that was a friend’s house he rented and this was more of a PRO job that I was paid for. 🙂
hmmmm……what are they growin in that? space.
It looks like that bottle of R410a had been rolling around in your truck for a while. Nice install. I wish that I could afford to put an American Standard heat pump? in my home. I really like the two stage scroll compressor.
Thanks for the post. I changed jobs because of the? crap company I worked for were complete money grubbin’ hacks. I would think of stuff you posted and knew I could do better. Trying to make the shift to commercial. I assume it has been good to you.
those were some bad ass grow rooms! completely sealed, nice!. Yea i love those new A S units, they rock. man you rock, good job!?
will you or can? you do videos of the stuff you keep running?
done any offroading with youre dodge
hps lights , visqueen lined walls and carbon exhaust filter this? must be a cali grow room
Hackfree, it’s great to see you back. Those 2-stage condensers, ECM blowers and intelligent stats are a far cry from the days of the vise-grip? expansion valve you had to fab up once. I love the contrast! This install was impressive work, especially considering on the road and only two days. Thanks for posting the video.
Thanks!?
Glad to see you made it bro.
I know EXACTLY what? you mean by “too close to the wall” see this one! /watch?v=9CKdVSQSCg4
That video consists of my pictures and a co workers video after he put flat top grills on XL19i’s so the head pressure would stay under 400 PSI (R22)!
And yes, I am still tired from last weekend! Too bad the extra money is going to my daughter’s teeth. I had a new .308 rifle and other gun stuff I wanted. 🙁
No I work “in house” now for a place that has a 6 story building with chillers, 3 story building with Water Source Heat Pumps, and another property with a bunch of RTU’s. It’s pretty much just like? I’m keeping my own stuff running.
Don’t? you love it when the the other guys jam the condensers up against a wall? or better yet Harry homeowner builds a deck right over one……..then you get called out to find the compressor’s shot. I try to let um down easy when I explain to him he’s screwed. 🙂 Good install !!! Lots of work for one weakened ! 5 *****’s !
like what any good house computer or music videos:)
you got me hooked on maden thanks to one? of youre vidoes.
and do you still work for the same company you used to?
how are the kids and the wife.
I wouldn’t call them “good”.
I’d just say “not as bad”.
The new Goodman units haven’t been around long enough to call? them “good”, LOL!
In fact, Goodman has never had a “good” reputation yet. Maybe time will tell for the new stuff.
I never did complain about getting parts though. They’ve always been consistent on the parts which is something the likes of Lennox is not known for.